Static Newsabout
shaunpud | 45 comments

skrebbel|next|

The worst thing about this, to me, is that Windows Mail client, the one they're discontinuing, is a fantastic piece of software. It's simple, lean, capable, and elegantly designed. It's perfect for a novice computer user to check their email on.

The new cloud thing is worse in every way. It confusingly copies your email over from your email provider's servers onto Microsoft's servers, and then shows an ad that looks exactly like an email in the middle of all the emails. In other words, it injects spam, but the spam is special because you can't delete it. Also, it needs to run in a browser for no apparent reason. For anybody currently using Windows Mail, it's a pure downgrade.

I understand that a company running a cloud service needs to finance this service, eg with ads, but this doesn't need to be a cloud service at all. It's so extremely backward that I simply can't comprehend how it made it through all the management layers at Microsoft. If all builtin software that comes with Windows turns into a bad, ad-ridden cloud apps then that's just one more reason for people to switch to Chromebooks, right? What's next, ads in Solitaire¹?

I miss the time when Microsoft wanted to make useful software.

¹) This was a joke, Microsoft already did this. They removed Solitaire from Windows and replaced it with a terrible Windows Store app which indeed is loaded to the rim with screamy animated banner ads. I assume that the PM responsible for that got promoted to the email team or something.


omega3|prev|next|

Every email program attempts to expand its features until it can no longer efficiently send email. Those programs which resist this expansion are eventually replaced by ones which cannot.

ggm|prev|next|

The lack of tech documentation and the fact they obfuscate or even don't provide "don't do that" options goes very strongly into older Microsoft dark patterns "for your convenience"

They did this with backup. Want to backup to local media? Why would you do that when we will back it up in one drive which you must pay for.


pjmlp|parent|next|

Unfortunely many business units from the organization seem to never have changed that much from the old ways.

Alifatisk|prev|next|

My worst fear is if Microsoft decides to fiddle with Hotmail/outlook and make it into something I have to pay for. I've had my email address for 15+ years, it's going to be a impossible task to change email address everywhere.

appendix-rock|parent|next|

I mean…do you plan on outlasting Hotmail? 15 years isn’t that long. Your choices are probably to do it proactively or to do it when your back is against the wall. There is no third option. I’m not going to be like one of those insane nerds advocating for running your own mail server, but if you care about email address longevity, mail at one’s own domain seems the only way to actually achieve that. These days, it’s zero effort to use Fastmail or Hey or something to get email at your own domain. They register it for you and everything! The hard bit is, as you say, moving everything. But, again, that’s inevitable.

kuon|parent|prev|next|

Yeah, that's why I always tell people to buy a domain for email, so they can move it where they want at any time. Hopefully, it becomes more and more standard with email providers. But when you have a long history, the best you can do is setup a redirection and change email address at the few places where it is really important (bank, google/microsoft/apple account, ...).

Neil44|prev|next|

They've recently renamed Outlook to Outlook (classic). So you can see which way the wind is blowing on this. Outlook (new) is still missing tons of big features and the UI sucks.

yread|parent|next|

Yep, it's my fault guys, sorry: I just migrated my grandma from Outlook 2007 to the new Outlook last week, so of course they have to deprecate it. Keeping the oldies sharp by having them learn new UI patterns every now and then

dax_|parent|prev|next|

I will keep using "classic" for as long as possible. This trend to turn everything into painfully slow web apps is really getting on my nerves. As an example, I use quick steps very frequently to categorize emails. In classic Outlook, I click the button and the email is moved immediately - in the new Outlook it has a ~1 second delay until the email is moved and I can move the next one. Takes so long to get through my inbox.

seb1204|parent|prev|next|

Not only does the UI suck, most keyboard shortcuts also no longer work or are just way to slow for my workflow.

pjmlp|parent|prev|next|

Similar to how WinDev keeps pushing WinUI as the successor, while it is still quite lacking versus UWP, which was already quite lacking versus WPF.

It is no accident that WPF has been reborn at BUILD 2024, as the 2nd official way to do Windows apps.

And in the end it hardly matters, as the business apps unit is now full of people that only understand Web, probably started using Windows when they joined Microsoft, and keep shipping stuff stuck into Web widgets.


larodi|parent|prev|next|

Outlook new is missing one fundamental feature which is automation. This blob of html can not be programmed unlike predecessors for more 15 years.

It is so easy to instantiate and use old outlook that I really fail to understand what is their endgame with this killing of a top and well respected product.


alt227|root|parent|next|

I think the article has it correct, its their way of forcing all users to have their emails stored and scraped by Microsoft, no matter the provider.

skipnup|root|parent|prev|next|

I switched to doing most of the automation in power automate

This of course only works with exchange afaik, but why else would I use outlook.


hetman|parent|prev|next|

Not to mention the rather consistent crashing. I see it across multiple systems which makes me wonder if the developers even use it themselves.

canistel|prev|next|

Meanwhile, Thunderbird is rolling out MS Exchange capability by v130 (which I am hoping must be very soon)

hetman|parent|next|

Thunderbird seems to run everything in a single thread, something I only noticed when I tried to sync some large mailing list folders and the UI basically became unusable. I was really hoping to switch to it before this cropped up.

_joel|parent|prev|next|

I've paid for and been a happy user of https://www.beonex.com/owl/ when I've needed to in the past.

wossab|parent|prev|next|

Outlook has been falling apart at the seams for a while now. But I cannot find a email client that supports multiple exchange servers and parses calendar invites in a way that's compatible with Teams. I'm the first to jeet Outlook if Thunderbird will do this but I'm also open to suggestions here.

rightbyte|root|parent|next|

It is a losing proposition to try to deal with compatibility between different MS products. Especially moving SaaS targets you can't control.

BodyCulture|prev|next|

The website is forcing me to disable ad blocking, but I am just using Orion browser and am happy with it, so can not see the content.

benterix|parent|next|

Have you tried disabling JS? It works for me on most sites, including this one.

nunobrito|prev|next|

Same "brading" as we see on Discord "servers" which basically all run on the company side.

Now there is really no way of verifying what kind of access they do with your personal email data.


tcfhgj|prev|next|

WinoMail is a good replacement for the Mail app, in case anyone is using it and is being shoved to using the Outlook App

sirolimus|prev|next|

This is over a year old news.

ddmf|prev|next|

The amount of issues this has caused as a sysadmin - no, don't open new outlook, open the new old outlook.

ah bugger it, add to intune - required uninstall.


blacklight|prev|next|

If you still use Outlook for ANYTHING then it's self-inflicted and well deserved.

29athrowaway|prev|next|

They move it to the cloud where it becomes AI food.

albertopv|prev|next|

New Outlook is 100% shit. So many features missing. Even adding attachments is sick. Of course, given it's an embedded web app.

daft_pink|prev|next|

are we just waiting for excel to exhibit this behavior shortly?

dax_|parent|next|

We're already going there, the new Python integration for Excel is cloud-only - the Python is not executed locally. It wouldn't surprise me if more and more features in Excel going forward will be the same way.

MaxikCZ|parent|prev|next|

I needed to send categorized and annotated batch of pictures (150MB) to a client, and for some reason I decided to drop the pics into excel sheet (allowing me to nicely support them with data etc). The client complained that they use web version of office 360, and that version doesnt allow to open excel files bigger than 100MB. I cant even.

pestatije|prev|next|

one step closer to finally merge hotmail and outlook together

wolpoli|parent|next|

As far as I can tell, they have already merged. Both the free version of Mail and enterprise version of Outlook (New) run the same user interface.

lostlogin|parent|prev|next|

Hotlook? Outmail?

blackeyeblitzar|prev|next|

Break them up. We need revised antitrust laws.

bbarnett|parent|next|

I think yes, and it really boils down to role separation. For everything.

An example being cable companies. They should have no capability to own TV stations, media creators, news companies, the list goes on. Backbone is backbone, be it an internet connection, or a TV/video feed.

Back to Microsoft you can make an OS, or you can make apps, but not both. An OS being a 'backbone'.

Applies to Google. "Search" vs "Ads". Backbone versus 'stuff on top'.

Really, sadly, there are cases where co-mingled stuff makes perfect sense. But bad actors are why we can't have nice things.

I wonder, there have always been jokes about how the world would be a paradise without lawyers, but would that be more MBAs in the 21st? Whether cars, or computers, or even the ladder I recently bought that is junk, it really all comes down to MBAs.

Engineers input "that's not acceptable quality", and MBAs just tromp all over that.

MBAs, the "we can't have nice things" people.


oarsinsync|root|parent|next|

How would you suggest splitting up a heavily vertically integrated company, like eg Apple?

Does Google search become a paid subscription product in your vision of separation of search vs ads?


rochak|prev|next|

Enshittification. Here we goooooo!

senectus1|prev|next|

its so, so very bad.

but... if you want co-pilot... you have to have it.

All my exec's and their PA's want it. but.. they also want Offline access to their mail.

For some reason its MY FAULT they cant have both.

so very very shit.


BodyCulture|prev|

So like IMAP?

alt227|parent|

Like IMAP, except Microsoft downloads and stores all your folders on their servers, even if your email provider is not Microsoft.